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 D-Day - 6 June 1944

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GhostOps21
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PostSubject: Re: D-Day - 6 June 1944   Mon Jul 19, 2010 9:25 pm

I don't think the persecution of the Jews was a significant factor that would or wouldn't have changed the war. While the Germans didn't keep many famous Jewish scientists, they would eventually have a free, expendable work force. So it kind of balanced out in labor/output terms.

The problem stemmed from Hitler and his unquestionable power. While he made some good decisions, he also messed a lot up. He was a stubborn man set in old ways. Rather than listen to his generals, he'd dismiss them or just disregard them. A multiple front war had almost broke Germany in WWI, and finally cracked them in WWII. Hitler was arrogant, and wanted to show his superiorism to the "Bolsheviks" and attack Russia. (Almost stupid grouping Russia as the Allies, as Germany and Russia had a treaty, and both pillaged and raped Poland, and only fought cause Hitler attacked Russia.) Hitler over extending himself, and then limited his Generals until it was too late. Had the war only been a western front and North Africa, it would be a completely different world.

Rommel was extremely close to overpowering the British in North Africa. From 190-42, Rommel had very limited amounts of troops/tanks, and still had great success. But when it could only last so long, Hitler decided to give him more armor, but by 1942, the Africa campaign was over as the Americans had entered, and the British slowly refreshed. Had he the amount of tanks that he would receive shortly before defeat in 1943, Rommel would've won. Completely different world had the Axis won Africa.

And Hitler was still a WWI riflemen at heart. Favoring the Kar98K over the StG43/44 was a fatal mistake, and had the military doctrine favor old tactics, yet some new style like Blitzkrieg, etc. Hitler really limited the full power of the Wehrmacht, from how the Generals should fight, with what, and when.

Oh on a side note, Hitler had the Messerschmitt 262, a pure jet fighter converted heavily into a bomber. But it would only hold around 2,000 pounds of bombs. Making it an extremely fast, yet extremely lightly armed bomber, and wouldn't listen to technicians and experts, until it was too late. That and the Reich eventually became too corrupt as a result of the totalitarianism system, and people learned how to beat the system.

If you want to know inside Hitler's mind, read Inside the Third Reich by Albert Speer. I was already a history buff, but this book, just damn...

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Austynn
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PostSubject: Re: D-Day - 6 June 1944   Mon Jul 19, 2010 9:33 pm

I do know that from extensive research the whole reason behind hitler's hatred of the Jewish people in general stemmed from a time when he was quite young, his mother had fallen terribly ill and a Jewish doctor tried every technique he could to save her but she eventually died from her illnesses. After that Hitler blamed that doctor for his mother's death, and with that his mass hatred for all Jews was born. That hate grew and spread from Jews to Catholic's, African American's, and eventually anyone who wasn't of pure Aryan descent.
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GhostOps21
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PostSubject: Re: D-Day - 6 June 1944   Mon Jul 19, 2010 9:35 pm

When he was growing up, the Austrian system was one of the only countries in the world at the time to have an official antisemitism stand, and Hitler would later borrow many things about it later on, so his views in Mein Kampf aren't really that new or original, though he did add some new stuff, and would later implement it later on.

Hitler's death was soon after being rejected from Austria's Fine Arts Academy thing, so it was just another thing that went wrong in his life, but he changes many things in Mein Kampf to sound better to the public.

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Last edited by GhostOps21 on Mon Jul 19, 2010 9:36 pm; edited 1 time in total
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muchosmerc
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PostSubject: Re: D-Day - 6 June 1944   Mon Jul 19, 2010 9:36 pm

It is disputed whether or not Hitler disliked Catholic's, he made several conflicting statements concerning it. What I do know, though, is that the Nazis had a truce with the Catholic church, and promised to leave Vatican city alone as long as they did not meddle in their affairs.

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Souljah E
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PostSubject: Re: D-Day - 6 June 1944   Mon Jul 19, 2010 11:27 pm

GhostOps21 wrote:
I don't think the persecution of the Jews was a significant factor that would or wouldn't have changed the war. While the Germans didn't keep many famous Jewish scientists, they would eventually have a free, expendable work force. So it kind of balanced out in labor/output terms.


I understand your position, but you fail to take into account the realpolitik of the Second World War. America did not join because it wanted to, nor would it necessarily need to fight the Germans when it did.

America aided the Europeans long before entering the war. Why did it do this ?

The answer lies in the 'Special Relationship' which turns on the axis of Intelligence and Technology. The interchange of tech between the US & the UK is the reason behind America's support for the UK. In it's modern form the UK rents boosters from the US for it's submarines and pays for a share of SIGINT plus performs OSINT.

During the Second World War the relationship was even stronger due largely to the work being done at Manchester & Liverpool Universities on Computing, Radar, Metallurgy & of course WMDs. Britain pawned the family silver when it came to tech and in return bought American support.

This manufacturing support allowed the British to turn many tides, including eventually North Africa and who did this work ? Jewish Emigres with UK Nationals. The Tube Alloys project which was blended with the Manhattan Project might as well have been refered to as the Sword of Gideon.

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